Chef Sense
Chef Sense is hosted by Chef James Massey. Chef's passion for the culinary arts, life and quest for knowledge will keep you amused. It is an entertaining menagerie of great conversation and investigative interviews. He will engage with chefs, food and beverage professionals, farms, public figures, and friends.
Podcast Disclaimer:
We are not responsible for any losses, damages, or liabilities that may arise from the use of this podcast. This podcast is not intended to replace professional medical advice. The views expressed in this podcast may not be those of the host, guest or the management. All right reserved under Chef Sense Podcast and Chef Massey, LLC.
Chef Sense
Chef Linh Aven: From Molecular Medicine to Culinary Alchemy with Foraging and Sustainable Farming
We sit down with the extraordinary Linh Aven, a chef who's seamlessly blending the realms of science and culinary arts. Our latest episode is more than just a conversation; it's a journey through Linh's transition from the world of molecular medicine to the forefront of the culinary industry. We reminisce about times spent restaurant consulting and how Linh's bold leap into sustainable farming is reshaping our relationship with food.
As we wander through the enchanting world of foraging, I share my familial ties to the ancient practice, while Linh enlightens us on the transformative potential of natural ingredients like pine syrup and shagbark hickory. Our discussion ventures into the wild, offering a primer on the art of foraging with respect and wisdom, and unveiling the hidden flavors that nature bestows upon those who seek them. Linh and I underline the importance of safe foraging and the profound respect for the land that it entails, as we reveal how these foraged treasures are revolutionizing culinary innovation.
We tackle the pressing issues of sustainability and the future of farming. Listen as we delve into the heart of sustainable practices, from the significance of soil health to the art of seed saving. We celebrate the resilience of local farms, especially in the wake of global challenges, and discuss the necessity of nurturing a new generation of passionate farmers. Through the story of Linh's farm and our shared insights, we aim to inspire listeners to reflect on the food we eat and the earth it comes from, emphasizing that the roots of our future lie in the passion and perseverance of those who cultivate it.
Thank you Chef Linh!!
https://www.dandelionforestfarm.com/
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Podcast Disclaimer:
We are not responsible for any losses, damages, or liabilities that may arise from the use of this podcast. This podcast is not intended to replace professional medical advice. The views expressed in this podcast may not be those of the host, guest or the management. All right reserved under Chef Sense Podcast and Chef Massey, LLC.
Hey everyone, welcome to Chef Sense. I'm your host, Chef Massey, I gotta do a real quick podcast. Shout out, look for a new podcast. We're doing pretty well, but I have to be honest, you know, as a chef I'm a perfectionist. I want to do above average, so I'm going to keep jamming and getting better. Thank you all for continuing to plug in and listen to these episodes, but if you can please share, like rate or review anything and everything that you can to spread the good word, I greatly appreciate it. And let's get into the episode On the podcast we have chef founder scientist Linh Aven. That's everything, isn't it Linh, who is just so awesome. Thank you for being on.
Chef Linh:Yeah, it's really great to be here.
Chef James:You know, I guess for everybody, so you guys all know where this is kind of coming from. Lynn and I started a few months back, got pulled into this decent size project together as consulting chefs and actually Chef Tom Todesco was the other one and let me tell you guys, if they couldn't pull together like an amazing, trio of three people that are more entertaining, more talented and just vibe with each other.
Chef James:We had stepped into this amazing project with a very cool multi chain restaurant concept. We stepped right into this and evaluated everything and I just had such a good time with you.
Chef Linh:Yeah, it was the dream team. We got so much done so fast.
Chef James:You know, and I don't even know how we did it either, because, so to explain to you guys, they kind of brought us into their home or their base flagship store.
Chef Linh:So you know we go in there. You know we're ready to go.
Chef James:I mean we're all seasoned veterans, right? I mean you know we're going to get it done. We love what we do, we're passionate and you know, what's really cool is that, with the many years of service and a variety of different aspects that the three of us have behind us, the ego played no part in it, and I think that's so important and I think that's just what I really. You know, we fed off of it and just we just pushed ahead because there's no roadblocks, you know.
Chef Linh:Yeah, it's just pure collaboration.
Chef James:when you check your ego at the door, Right, right, and you know that's good advice for all of us and, stepping into that again, really cool concept. But remember, when we walked into the kitchen, we were like how are we going to do this? Because it was packed and the team was like cranking and so we, like went into the conference room and put our stuff down. I'm like, all right, here's our test kitchen conference room, Cool. So so we got in there and we made it happen.
Chef Linh:Yeah, it was great, it was really wonderful meeting both of you guys, and even outside of it, I mean after the project we would still, you know, catch up with each other and explain what we're cooking for Thanksgiving.
Chef James:Yeah, that was so cool. Yeah, I mean, tom, was he just, you know, threw that out there and but no, you know, I think to the way you operate, it's like you just see it, as we work through it, we fit into our spots. I just really appreciated you on how talented you are, but also the fact of like your organization structure and just you were such a huge asset to that. You know so anyways, but yeah, let's get into your beginning. Where did this all come from? Your passion?
Chef Linh:Oh, it's a long. It's been a long and windy journey, but it's one that it kind of unfolded organically. So I grew up in California, I go to school in Pacific Northwest and then I came to Boston. I got my PhD in molecular medicine.
Chef James:Yeah, that was, that's. Amazing.
Chef Linh:I was good student, so I just took it as far as I could, but I didn't really think about what I wanted to do professionally after that and it was. It was about time to be in science. It was the 2009 recession lab.
Chef James:Yep.
Chef Linh:So I I ended up jumping paths. I realized that all along I had been really interested in food, but I hadn't pursued it professionally. So I started volunteering at a French bakery, cafe Madeleine, and that just turned into a full time opportunity to make from scratch croissants. You know baker's hours, 4am, yeah yeah. So hauling 50 pound bags of flour up and down the stairs. It was great. But I realized I wasn't passionate about history. I just wanted to make normal food for normal people.
Chef Linh:So I joined Be Good as fast casual restaurant chain. At the time they had 78 units nationwide and I was going to be the assistant to their chef who helped start it. And like literally the next day I became their executive chef because the main chef left for another opportunity and I just jumped in and figured out. I was like, okay, let's figure out what fast casual means. And you know what we could do here. And at Be Good they were really trying to, you know, be a better version of fast casual healthier food, a little bit more from scratch, better sourcing. They had their own farm on one of the harbor islands and so I became really close with the Be Good farmer, casey Ballin, and we.
Chef Linh:We visited a lot of farms trying to figure out contract growing and just learning the state of our food systems of today, that, even though we could work with local farms, somehow it was cheaper and easier to get ahead of Romain from California shipped all the way to the East Coast. So my head was starting to think about why this was and what we've done about it. We started talking about regenerative agriculture, and why aren't more farmers practicing these techniques that seem like this is the way forward? Yeah, and then COVID hit. And so March of 2020, I remember Casey called me and said hey, you know all these things we've been talking about regenerative agriculture and farming. Well, why don't we start a farm together? And I don't have anything else to do? So I was like, oh, let's do it.
Chef James:Right.
Chef Linh:Start a farm.
Chef James:Wow, I mean, that's amazing.
Chef Linh:Yeah.
Chef James:Okay, so. So how did that I mean? Obviously you're here, so.
Chef Linh:Yeah, so we started the quest for land, which in the Northeast is pretty difficult. Okay, and with the COVID housing bubble, we searched and search. We ended up in a burgeoning farm cooperative in New Hampshire on the Seat Coast.
Chef Linh:So it was the idea was several farmers together to share research and we started the quest for land which is a farm, that we're going to be working together to share resources, which seemed like a great idea. But since we, we really we're thinking about if we were going to do a farm, what kind of farm did we want to be? And we really wanted to figure out the things that just naturally grew. Well in our area, like you know, our farms are called the herbicides, and herbicides on the crops, things that just naturally grew, all like dandelions. You know our farm is named dandelion forest farm. Right, if we could farm dandelions, that would be amazing, so easy.
Chef James:Yeah, yeah. Well, you can do some wine, for sure, you know.
Chef Linh:Yeah, and you know the greens for salad for tea. So we were really focused on edible perennial plants as kind of the focus of the farm. But that means we would need, you know, really long term tenure. For many reasons this farm cooperative fell through but thankfully we were able to find land in Nottingham, new Hampshire, through a land trust, the Southeast Land Trust, so this is preserved forever farm land and we're going to get it more affordably for that.
Chef Linh:And now we're on 30 acres, but six acres of old meadow that used to just be haid and 200 chestnut trees in the ground. We have an acre of annual vegetables, medicinal herbs. We have lair hens, ducks and farm to table dinner series called the farmers table.
Chef James:Awesome. So are you now for your season? When does it actually? When do your dinners actually start and run through?
Chef Linh:Yeah, so the dinners are June through October because they're outside, so we want to make sure the weather is warm enough.
Chef James:Yeah, there's a variety of things that you guys did. I see you. So, you guys have a pause Eventually.
Chef Linh:Yes, a lot of the perennials are still in the nursery stage. I've been trying to source a lot of seed and grow them out myself, and so we've been doing annuals until then. So we can you know, there's a lot of time to grow a lot of food until the chestnuts are much bigger. Right now they're kind of like small shrubs. So we can, we can grow food in between the chestnuts until they get bigger. And then the long term plan is that, as all these edible perennial crops are mature, then we will do less annuals and then maybe we'll have some grazing animals like sheep to just take care of the pasture.
Chef James:Wow, wow, that's so amazing, and chestnuts are so, so tasty.
Chef Linh:They are. I think a lot of Americans don't know. It's kind of skipped a generation.
Chef James:Oh yeah.
Chef Linh:So they just know it from you. Know the Christmas song, but really wonderful food, and it's a starch than a nut.
Chef James:So, it could be considered like tree corn that falls, that's so funny you say that you know, because it kind of reminds you of that starchy hominy Mm, hmm, that kernel and you know, and that's another good point too, and I think maybe what and this is just me throwing out a thought, because you said that but Maybe that blight that we dealt with in the country with our American chestnuts, especially here in New England, but there was a like a blight that ran through.
Chef Linh:Yeah, it was about Like a hundred years ago.
Chef James:Was it okay.
Chef Linh:Yeah, I have a lot of American chestnuts, so now there's been a resurgence. By mixing up the genetics American, chinese, japanese, korean we can find more blight resistant varieties, and there are a number of farms in the Midwest and upstate New York that are growing chestnuts. Again, there is a demand for it. It also is a wonderful gluten-free flour.
Chef James:Yeah, so easy to make a. Pasta right, oh, that's so cool and I like actually candy in those and like slow cooking them in a syrup. That's kind of typical, but I know that those are pretty popular and still like used over in Italy. Yes yeah, that's kind of a big deal for them. It was like a street vendor food for the longest time.
Chef Linh:Yeah, actually when, when I was in Italy for our honeymoon, it was in the fall and I remember seeing a street vendor. He was just picking chestnuts off the ground because they were calling community trees and roasting them, selling them. Yeah, I didn't realize the path that I was on at that time, but looking back, you know, I wish we had all these chestnut trees, you know mature.
Chef James:But yeah, what? There's also other things. I mean, you've got your, you're doing some Fermentation and stuff too. Is that code yeah?
Chef Linh:another part of of the farm is just trying to keep an eye on Food waste and really it's more about respecting the plants and the harvest, so really making sure we're using up every last bit. So I already know there will be times where we are left with surplus and I want to be prepared when that happens. I can then put on my chef's hat and figure out some way of Preserving the harvest. So I've been playing around with making vinegars Me so's oh, wow lacto fermentation. Soy sauce usinings.
Chef James:That's so cool, because actually I'm sure you've heard of them South River, miso, mm-hmm. They're, they're excellent and they really do it the old-school way too. I mean, it's that's so cool, you're doing that too.
Chef Linh:Yeah, and actually well, koji Khan, just happened, the Koji conference. That's so many applications with Koji, and Koji can unlock just so many new flavors.
Chef James:Oh yeah.
Chef Linh:So I've been. I've been trying to keep myself really focused on things that I can grow here, so growing Koji on corn that I can grow Instead of rice or soybeans, and then, like you know, one of the Noma ferments was using like a whole squash, and so what kind of Miso adaptation can I do with things that I can grow here on our?
Chef James:Yeah, that's so cool. You know it's funny too. I actually have a bag of Koji up in my pantry area. So what is that called shield Koji and it's like this salted, like mommy. I mean you take that and you don't need a lot of it, but like rubbing meats down before they go on the grill Mind blowing.
Chef Linh:Yeah, absolutely delicious and it makes it so easy. It really just unlocks for chefs and for home cooks. When you have a pantry full of interesting ingredients, your job's just so much easier.
Chef James:Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely Firesider. You think you'll ever get to fireside, or are you probably already doing it?
Chef Linh:Oh yeah, we already have lots. Yeah, I really. I prefer to use it as a vinaigrette most, first and foremost, rather than drinking it straight. I think it tastes great.
Chef James:Oh, it's, it is. You know, do a shot glass of that. Well, maybe that's too much, but maybe, maybe a tablespoon. But um and syrups. You had a. Was that a pine syrup?
Chef Linh:Yeah, so in Italy the traditional Pine syrup is from the Mugol pine. They call it Mugolio, where you pack unripe baby pine cones into sugar and then the sugar draws moisture out from it. It's kind of like the Korean Chiang Okay, and so we can do that with basically any any edible pine here, you know, except the you family, and it is like a really interesting flavor. I think it's delicious. It's like pine and citrus notes, and then you just boil that down into a thick syrup. It's one of my favorite products, for sure that and you know, you can make a tea with the shag bar, kickery bar.
Chef Linh:Okay, yeah roast it, make a tea and then add sugar and boil that down and it's like a nice little nutty flavor. Yeah, a different way of making syrup than just tapping.
Chef James:Okay, and then looking at like your area I mean 30 acres Do you see any like mushrooms popping up at all? You?
Chef Linh:know I don't see that many mushrooms. Okay someday I will be inoculating some shiitake logs and grind some lion's mane and reishi. You know it's on the list.
Chef James:Yeah, that's so cool over here in the Berkshire is like for us. I just, spring is coming, it's like get ready for ramps and you know, then fiddle heads at some point, and so you know, morels are obviously in May, but but getting out and foraging, I love grabbing hold of these mushrooms. I found a couple honey holes for hedgehogs, which was, which was pretty cool, but my itake is just one of my favorites.
Chef James:Mm-hmm but yeah, even the chicken of the woods is a nice one.
Chef James:I actually did that one time In the oven and like a hotel pan and did some veg stock and herbs and onions and and garlic and just took that chicken of the woods, that huge orange coral, and Like basted it at a low temp for like two or three hours and when someone would order it I would kind of pull it out, like you know, like a big piece of like prime flip and then I did this plate with it, which was pretty cool.
Chef James:But I know I love the foraging and I love, you know, the connection with the land and that's where it connects me From, not just my you know my Anglo-American farming side of my family, but also my native side of my family, right of being where my feet are and pulling things from the land. But also, obviously you want to know what you're grabbing and so I build that foundation. But that's I don't know. It's just all the things that you know you're doing and that you're sharing about is just to me it's really powerful and it sounds like you know that inspiration and correct me if I wrong, but it seems like it in these other opportunities prior to this and then stepping into this opportunity to have a voice in Combating, you know, our big ag system that we have here in the US and some of our programming to do this on your farm must be A pretty amazing feeling, right.
Chef Linh:It is. Sometimes it feels a bit overwhelming To kind of take on the world's problems and solve it and my, my little piece of life here, yeah, but it's also an incredible opportunity. I think of this as my living lab to just try out a bunch of things, figure out the practices that work and don't work here. I think it's a really interesting time to be in food. We can pick and choose from so many global regions, but we can also choose to pick from different traditions across time and space.
Chef James:Yeah.
Chef Linh:And so we can bring back some of these ancient practices and merge it with our modern ones and just figure out what's going to work best for us, right, yeah, I mean, I think with the foraging it's really because we have access to all these global flavors. Sometimes it's really nice to figure out what your little piece of land tastes like.
Chef Linh:And to be really paying attention to that specific flavor, to be really so in tune with the seasons, not just spring, summer, fall, winter, but a very much a narrow window on foraging. You really have to be checking in with those plants and looking around.
Chef James:Yeah.
Chef Linh:Make sure you catch those windows.
Chef James:Well, and it's funny too, like the point you're bringing up, I mean, and that's farming, you know, it's kind of a risky business and kind of letting the land tell you what it's doing. And mushrooms are so funny like that because one year you could have morels pop up and get a small flush and then they don't come back for three years. So it's very funny like that. I find it interesting because I think even our settlers or our families during the time in indigenous people, that was all information that was passed down.
Chef James:You know, as you were raised on your land and in the area, I mean you knew which spots to check when, and that's again, I think it really goes into the mindfulness existence of like and again, that's just my opinion but like not being so distracted that I actually spiritually get connected to the amazing people around me that inspire me, but also the land that connects you. So that's really cool when you're talking about, like, your agroforestry, that you do there and you're doing your, what is that? The zero till, I mean all of this work that you're doing. Can you describe how you're planting and how you actually operate on your farm?
Chef Linh:Yeah, we're exploring a lot of practices that ultimately, are trying to create more of a closed loop ecology on this, on our farm, practices that are going to benefit soil health. I really think that, you know, a healthy soil is healthy plants, which is easier to care for and will benefit us, since we are eating those plants. And so, you know, by not tilling the soil ever, all of our beds were created with our hands, with we just suppress the grass with cardboard to smother it out, and there was no tilling. You don't have any heavy machinery here and that was intentional. You know, there's all sorts of communities in the soil, all these different organisms. They built their little villages and I don't want to just come in and destroy them.
Chef Linh:I want to support them. So you know, using compost that we make, making compost tea and spraying foliar feeds really just interplant a lot of interplanting of crops, so rarely do we see just one thing in a row together. I think you know prioritizing diversity. This year I'm only growing open pollinated varieties so that we can start working towards seed saving.
Chef Linh:There's a lot of hybrid seeds out there that the control is not in your hands anymore. You can plant those out, but then you won't have those same flavors coming back. So I think there's a lot of interesting work in like natural genetic selection that we can be doing and, yeah, just kind of trying to work with what we've been given. We're not doing any sprays like no pesticides, no herbicides, no fungicides. We could do it and sometimes they could work, but I don't think we can understand what's really going on in our soils if we keep spraying these. It's kind of like putting antibiotics globally on our land. We need to kind of let some of the diseases build up in order for things to come back into balance.
Chef James:Wow, that's really cool. Okay, I've said before too with other farmers that you know my farming family goes, you know, way back to multi generations in Northern California. We had 400 acres up there that my great-grandfather founded after he had gotten back and kind of established himself after World War I you know, and it just kind of took off. You know, and you know my experience in growing up with all that.
Chef James:I've seen the effects on the land. You know the effects on my family members that you know due to, you know, some of these processes that have been handed to our farmers way back then with not, you know, understanding a corrective action but not really understanding the long-term effect. And it's pretty eye-opening. And I think the special thing is that today we're farming as going in many of our local areas in New England and our New England farmers and I know our other farmers across the country are working on that too. But there's just becoming a better voice for our future of farming, even though we're kind of like combating our large corporate ag system right now. I think that a lot of the work that you're doing I mean it's all the foundational work for healthy longevity.
Chef Linh:Absolutely. I mean the food we put in our body. That is medicine. It's important to be feeding ourselves nutrient-dense foods, and we're also designed that those nutrient-dense foods will taste better to us if we're like really paying attention to what our bodies are telling us we want, right? Yeah, so it's the 100th anniversary of Biodynamics, a practice brought on by Rudolf Steiner, and they were talking, you know, 100 years ago, about all these farmers coming together and they're like, what do we do? It's the beginning of chemical fertilizers, tractors.
Chef James:Yeah.
Chef Linh:How do we farm? And I just think it's so funny we're asking the same questions. What do we do in the face of chemical fertilizers and machinery and the bigger systems that be? But I think now people are paying more attention. I think it's more normal to be having these discussions and I think that's incredibly helpful. You know, out of COVID, All CSA sales, farm sales went through the roof.
Chef James:Unbelievable. I was so excited, I mean that was so amazing for so many farms, wow. And they went from like small farm stores to like they had to remodel, they had to expand their selections. That was so cool, you know. And talking to some of our farmers for two they've kind of admitted that you know there was a massive wave during COVID, like you said, but now it's kind of like dropped a little bit. So how do you keep that? You know, momentum, because we're, you know, by going to our local farms.
Chef James:I mean people don't realize that, like you had mentioned before, you know you've got this three pack of romaine heart that comes from I don't know San Bernardino or what have you, in Bakersfield or you know, and comes all the way across the United States. And nutritionally, you know I've said it before, but the longer it sets, the weaker it gets. And to get these products with the integrity that you all provide is so substantial, not to mention your shelf life, the quality in which you're getting from that producer product. Even foraging for a mushroom, I mean you can go get one, you know, like a myotake, out of the store and then go forage one and do it side by side. It's just unreal.
Chef Linh:Right, but I think that the convenience factor is is really strong. Unfortunately, yeah, I think there's a lot going on with consumers. Money's a little tight right now and if it's not just right there in the grocery store at an appropriate price, it's hard for people. It's not impossible. I think there probably are local farms around you just got to go look for them. But what you're going to get it's going to look a little bit different. But I think that's okay. In our CSA I tell people all the time when you get a CSA from Dandelion Forest Farm products are going to look really different. I love different colors and different flavors and I also every week tell our share members this is what I would do with your crop share, to put it together to make the most use of everything. But if we're used to only romaine hearts, do people know what to do with the whole romaine lettuce?
Chef James:Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean it's peel it down and then throw it out.
Chef Linh:Or lettuce that's not in a plastic bin, that's triple washed in baby greens.
Chef James:Right, exactly, and I think that's I don't know. I think people now that they're realizing because some of these, these Netflix documentaries are coming out and they're really showing some of these that are, for example, Michael Pollan. Really eye-opening to really the underbelly of what we're dealing with. And again it's being educated. I mean, do you guys, did I see you do workshops or things like that too?
Chef Linh:by chance. Yeah, we do workshops on the farm. Yeah, okay.
Chef James:And that's cool. What kind of stuff.
Chef Linh:Do you do with that? So we've done, we've done a sheet mulching workshop. We've been thinking about doing one on like the three sisters growing.
Chef James:Oh, very cool.
Chef Linh:The Abenaki do seven sisters.
Chef James:Yep.
Chef Linh:Maybe doing someone like seed saving. Okay, and I think we'll just get people to grow something. Grow anything. Even if you're in an apartment, put a pot of basil in your window, sill Right.
Chef James:Right, it's a starter.
Chef Linh:Reconnecting in a tiny symbolic level Right Is a start.
Chef James:It is, yeah, absolutely. Well. It's funny too because like that I have done those. The three sisters garden and that man, they take off. I had like 21 of them and I even grew one of the squash I did was a Hopi, pale Gray and they're huge. I mean, it took, it went from like it's the garden patch all the way across my lawn, like it was so happy. It's like I'm here, you know, of course I have to go out and sage and I do my whole communication with them, because they're, you know, they're a living organism, right, I mean, I think, whether it's a plant or anything, good energy feed you, you know. But that's pretty cool that you're doing that as well. Obviously, it's an obvious question, but everything that you grow on your farm, you're doing like six courses and you're or multi-courses.
Chef Linh:Yeah, so it's myself and my chef partner, elizabeth Hasket. We do a six course family style dinner for farmers' table.
Chef James:Okay.
Chef Linh:And it's 40 people and it's been a really wonderful way to showcase everything. We've been talking about Products that we've foraged, things that we've made, just produce that we're growing here, having these conversations, showing people these are the plants that your food is coming from. You can eat. You can eat dandelions and dox seed. You know these edible plants are all around you right now. And then showing them not only what it is, but then making them eat it as well, really reinforce the point.
Chef James:And it's really enlightening, isn't it? I mean, are there anything? Is there anything that you plant wise, that you have done that? You're like, I didn't expect it to do what it did and taste, and I was really surprised by it.
Chef Linh:So all of last season I did a cornbread for the table and it's a really adaptable recipe. I've been playing around with alternative flowers and so I highlighted the dox seed. You know, everyone's got curly dock growing in their yard and it's really noticeable when that brown flower stock comes off. So we just pulled off all the shaft and ground it and added it to the cornbread and it was just a really symbolic way of eating the weeds and trying not to use, you know, not to view them as weeds, yeah, and so that kind of set the tone for the rest of the dinners.
Chef James:Wow, that's so cool. I mean, and you're located. Do you wanna let New Hampshire? What region or location specifically are you?
Chef Linh:We're in the Seacoast, so kind of in between Portsmouth and Manchester.
Chef James:Okay, there we go. Yeah, I need to. I should come do a dinner sometime.
Chef Linh:That would be great.
Chef James:That'd be so cool. I mean, you've got your CSAs. You're rolling through that when it comes to getting the help that you need. How are you all doing that? I mean, that's farm labor.
Chef Linh:Yeah Well, I know how much time I have in a day, so the majority of it is me right now. I'm hoping to have a college intern this summer.
Chef James:So, cool.
Chef Linh:We have a couple of people helping with the dinners and then my husband helps out with some of the infrastructure projects. But it's a lot and I have all these ideas and other projects I wanna do, but I'm trying to take it one step at a time, Really planning things out, getting systems figured out so we could be a little more efficient.
Chef James:Right, which is so cool, wow. Well, looking at like how you're planning things and stages like your ultimate dream, from what in the amazing work you're doing now, where do you hope to see things go for you with this?
Chef Linh:Yeah, so I live here, but I also live 20 years from now.
Chef James:I worked with you for a few days, so I picked up on it.
Chef Linh:It's just figuring out how to get there, but I've been visiting a time where we have fruit from June through November and it's almost all edible perennials. So I'm just doing a lot of pruning in the winter, harvesting, preserving in the summer, doing the dinners and then taking a break in the winter. So right now it's kind of a little bit of everything, but hopefully focusing it more and then out of the perennial crops that we're growing to develop more of a nursery to encourage other folks to be growing these plants also.
Chef James:Oh wow. So would you actually do a little pot, like little grower packs sprouts for people?
Chef Linh:Yeah, so, and we actually have extra chestnuts right now that we're selling chestnuts oh, really Hazelnuts, yeah, ooh, hazelnuts, mm-hmm.
Chef James:That's awesome.
Chef Linh:You just have to beat the squirrels.
Chef James:Well, that's the same with the acorns, isn't it?
Chef Linh:Yes, yes, but usually I think with there's just so many acorns in a mast year, you can keep up with them a little bit more than the hazelnuts.
Chef James:Okay, okay.
Chef Linh:Now, how do you? Now? You do that too.
Chef James:Now that's a soaking and a leaching process with the acorns that's. Can you describe that process?
Chef Linh:That's kind of how to make it, yeah, so we just had a really good season last year. So you got to pick all the acorns, give them a float test, you keep all the sinkers, then just let them dry and they're good for years in the shell.
Chef Linh:So when you need them. You can crack them out the day built nutcracker is really great or you can get a towel and a hammer, take all the nut meats out, grind them up and just I use the cold soap method so you just remove the tannins, so you just soak it in water. The water's gonna turn tan, okay, and you just give it several changes till it doesn't taste bitter, and then you can dry them and grind them up to use this flour.
Chef James:That's so cool and have you done like muffins or?
Chef Linh:Yeah, it's also like a really nice alternative flour and I think with the rise of gluten-free baking there's so many good recipes out there and you can just swap them in Really good pancakes crepes. They go really well in that cornbread also.
Chef James:Right. Well, and again, it is a process, but you get so much out of it from doing that and learning it. I know we were sharing before. Earlier I was over there reducing maple sap for maple syrup, and one thing that I've always appreciated is that getting the opportunity to step in someone else's shoes. To me, a chef, we're storytellers and it's trying to do my best by you, from what you provide, or us collabing on something, that we're in this coexistent journey together, that what goes on the plate really has power behind it. That's 100% real and I think that's the beauty of it and I really thrive off of that.
Chef Linh:Exactly and, I think, tying it back to if you just buy some bagged romaine hearts in the grocery store, I'm not sure you want to tell that story. There is a story there, but being a little bit more aware of the process and figuring out, where did our food come from? Where did those seeds come from? Who's been saving these seeds all this time? How do they get to be here? How does maple happen from a tree? It gives you a new perspective on all of the food that we consume on a daily basis.
Chef James:Right, and my other question I actually had down in just your thoughts. But as we see our farmers continuing to age out, there is a level of a gap that is starting to happen. And I'm a pretty logical person. But as I'm looking at it I'm thinking, okay, maybe it's because of technology and the way things in life and societal shifts. I don't want to say we've become more comfortable, but we've been a little dependent on things. When you go into a no-till farm like yours, I mean when you're done with a 10 hour, 12 hour a day, I wouldn't even know what to say. I mean, there's like, is there any? There's a lot of stretching involved, I'm sure, but there's quite a challenge with trying to get our young farmers because they are inspired and they are wonderful. But how do we protect that and move it forward? I mean, what are your thoughts on that?
Chef Linh:Absolutely. It is definitely a challenge. The good news is I've met and continued to meet so many impassioned young people who want to work the land. They see that this is a way forward for everyone. The biggest challenges right now, I think, are the cost of land and the cost of housing and the cost of everything else, but yet our food prices are continually artificially repressed, so the economics of it make it really really tough these days. I don't have a silver bullet answer. I think people have to be more clever than ever, exploring more of these cooperative type models to do some sort of equipment sharing or labor sharing. But I think on a smaller level, every dollar matters. So when we vote with our dollars and we keep voting for smaller, more community-scaled foods, that opens up a bigger market for these younger farmers to get a foot in the door and figure out a model that works for them.
Chef James:Right and that you know it's funny and you mentioned kind of that. Here they have the Berkshire Mobile Farmers Market, which is really cool. I actually had them on the podcast but Berkshire Grown actually is the big piece to that. But they have gotten a grant to start this project where they can do these mobile farmer markets and local farms could send their product or meet them at these locations where people had food insecurity could get it. And it's not like a big stretch of a farmer's market, it's a small, you know I don't want to say a 10 by 10 with some tables, but it is a smaller version of it. And they also had a buying program that was very respectfully discreet to people that can or cannot afford it and how much they can afford to do protecting their privacy on that. But that was really cool to see that to start to happen.
Chef Linh:Yeah, that sounds fantastic, I think anyway we can be again using everything that is grown. If we can, as chefs, be creating ways or programs that you know to let farmers know hey, if you have B grade tomatoes it doesn't matter, because we're going to cook them up anyway. So if they don't look perfect, you know I'll take them to create that ahead of time, to be establishing those relationships. So all of those foods go somewhere that's not just to compost.
Chef James:Right, exactly, that's actually a good idea for even possibly our school food systems as well. You know those seconds and it's funny. I remember reading a while back and I could be wrong, but I thought there was something to when these vegetables or this produce has, you know, not horrible blemishes, but they have some blemishes and some dings, some scarring, that their nutritional value is actually a little bit higher or stronger, is that?
Chef Linh:yeah, I heard that Okay yeah. I think like a lot of produce that's grown in like the Andes, because the altitude is so high, it stresses the plants out more and so the plants have to put more nutrients and defenses up to support themselves, which then strengthens us. Or when a plant is getting eaten by something it's trying to defend, and so it's actually better for us. And probably the reason why a lot of grape farmers they're not irrigating or fertilizing, they want stressed plants because that's more flavor.
Chef James:Right, okay, well, thank you for confirming that this is just amazing. The wealth of knowledge that you have, I mean your commitment to you know what you're doing. It really is inspiring. I mean I'm really grateful that you know we've got a chance to you know, to meet, work together and where I could learn more about what you're doing and what you provide, because I mean, you're on it, you know, in so many ways.
Chef Linh:So yeah, well, I mean, I feel like we are. We're certainly on a learning journey. We certainly don't have anything figured out. It's nice to have the time and space to to try a bunch of stuff and share this knowledge. In. As much as sometimes I hate social media, it's also a wonderful place to connect with folks and to put this knowledge out there. So it's just wonderful to be able to have normalized conversations about our bigger systems and our smaller food systems.
Chef James:Well, I know, and that's where I'm so grateful for today. So where can people just go to your website and are your tickets for your dinners for sale there?
Chef Linh:Yeah, so we're going to be really seeing our tickets end of March. If you sign up on our newsletter from our website, we'll let our newsletter folks have first crack at this ticket. And we're accepting CSA shares right now for those areas. And yeah, folks want to buy chestnut trees. We've got seedlings.
Chef James:I actually think I need to grab a couple of those.
Chef Linh:That would be great.
Chef James:You know, you never know, but, like, maybe truffle farming could be in your future, well cool. So thank you, chef Linh, for your time. This has been awesome. It's so good to see you again.
Chef Linh:Yeah, this was so great. We should definitely be doing this more often.
Chef James:Thank you, I can't wait, take care. Yeah, all right, everyone, that is a wrap. You can check us out if you like that. Subscribe Also the Instagram Chef Massey. Let's keep it simple, chef Masseycom. Have a good one. Bye for now.